Nation and starting location selection

Okay, here are the nations:

Vanheim, Ermor, Eriu, Mictlan, Marignon, (+ Ashod)

Who's taking what and which starting sites are we going for?

Apparently TC is also for grabs if someone wants it.

I can play any of those nations, actually. What I've heard of both E's have been popular so I'm not pushing for those. Maybe Vanheim or Marignon preferably, but if someone wants to play them Mictlan's going ok also.

Edit: I'm also going to suggest to start the discussion, that fastest early expanders being put to top/bottom so they can snuff few noob nations asap (Vanheim, Mictlan?), while center goes to mobile raiders (Eriu, uh, someone) and the bit slower-starting monsters (Ermor for undead hordes and Marignon for flaming arrows) are the off-center nations (second from top/bottom) to shield overextenders and raiders from noobs. How does that sound and does it make any sense?

i can't believe they number #1'd pythium.... lol remember all our speeches about how they wouldn't think pythium was that great?...

we have ashdod and vanheim and ermor though which were our top3 on every single list so i don't think we can complain....


but they have abysia and pan and jotunheim that means they have all the blood and all the blood spells (well not literally but all the nations with any reasonable chance to cast rain of toads/lesser horror are theirs

Ashdod, Vanheim, Ermor, and Mictlan are our heavy hitters IMO. I know lingchih wants Ermor and is going for a blessed vestral rush build. Put Ermor and Vanheim on the poles, they have undead amphibians and sailing respectively.

Personally I'm willing to play Marignon, Eriu or Mictlan. Can probably do decently with any of those.

So, Eriu and Marignon in the center? Or should the center pieces be heavies also since much of the push might be centered there?

There's also the matter of team forger. Vanheim might want to go to Const2 to forge Hammers for whoever who wants the chore, but which nation (if any?) is suited for it? We don't have as much recruitable SC materiel as in EA game, but at least Eriu and Vanheim can thug out commanders handily.

EDIT: Ling's been calling for Ermor, Baalz mentioned Eriu in the list of nations he's willing to play, waiting to hear from DrP. I'm still either Vanheim or Marignon, though Vanir nation I've played recently so maybe Mari?

I shouldn't do Vanheim.

I can do either Mictlan or Marignon easily enough.

For Mictlan - it's a domstr 8 triple bless all the way. MA Mictlan has the advantage of taking death, since your casters are not old.
Imprisoned Oracle, domstr 8, 9F9W9S, 3 Turmoil, 3 Sloth, 2 Heat, 3 Death, 2 Luck, 2 Drain.
I will need sizable and constant donations from other players to keep this going, and of course to build secondary fortresses from which to recruit eagle warriors. Since my pop is dying anyway I will be patroling like crazy and taxing at 200%.

For Marignon, I might try the Thaum rush and get my Witchhunters spamming bonds of fire. That should work well in combination with my xbowmen. This build can fit in a productivity if needed - but otherwise, just give me the second-best resources (after Ashdod) so I can spam xbowmen.

Awake Great Sage, domstr 6, Order 3, FA2W2E2S2D2N2, Order 3, Growth 1, Luck 1, Drain 2

Okay.

And Baalz? You happy with Eriu or would you like Vanheim/Marignon/Mictlan?

If happy with Eriu, I assume I'm taking Vanheim.

Trying to combine some bless and good scales for skinshifter rush and thugging out Vanjarls. Maybe Imprisoned Domstr8 Father of Winters with W9A4E4 bless? Would need someone else to forge brands.

Yes, I want Ermor, and am happy to have them. I will submit a build by tomorrow... or maybe Monday at the latest.

Okay, this is going nowhere. So, assuming Baalz is fine with Eriu, TheDemon and DrP can divide M&M as they see fit.

As to starting locations, Vanheim for sailing and Ermor for hordes of undead were called for the top and bottom nations. South pole has an interesting sea province that neighbours helluvalot of land, north pole doesn't. Which one's for sailor and which one's for submariner can be debated, I myself am a bit worried that Vanheim to south is a bit too evident and noobs might do something to counter that. Dunno what they can do, but C'tis miasma and stuff comes to mind.

Anyway, regardless of the south/north pole occupation, how's the following lineup (with the first at north or south and going to the other direction at that order):

Ermor, Eriu, Ashdod, Mictlan, Marignon, Vanheim?

Ermor and Vanheim at the poles, there's some overlap with Eriu and Van so they're far apart, Mictlan should be able to go nuts in the beginning so to take over the center. Ashdod and Marignon plug the holes, at least I'd like some orthogonal support next to me in case someone figures out a perfect counter to strong infantry/cavalry card.

We need to give a proposition to get this game rolling, so please either criticize or okay it. I'm fine with any setup, but here's one possibility.

TheDemon posted a Marignon build, so I'll take Mictlan.

I do think we made a mistake rating Mictlan so high and Abyssia so low. But, no blood for us! Consider it a challenge.

As long as we're in agreement that people will send me money, I'll go ahead with:
Imprisoned Oracle, domstr 8, F9W9S9, 3 Turmoil 3 Sloth 3 Heat 3 Death 3 Luck 2 Drain

Keep in mind that as MA Mictlan, I only make eagle warrior (not jags) out of remote forts. For research, does anyone have a better suggestion than evocation for thunderstrike off of my high priests of the sky?

how do we determine how much money to send mictlan? a lot of the other nations on the team have fairly interesting things to spend money on as well don't they?

We would have got Abysia only if we rated it #1, and I don't think anyone ever suggested that. So no use crying over spilled milk.

Usually people have /some/ leeway in cash, so I think Mictlan will get some early on. But I'd assume/hope DrP can and will expand beyond his dominion quite soon, thus giving him money.

We need someone to forge stuff. I can go first to const2 for hammers, but we need someone with water and nature to forge UW rings and nature stuff. Looking at Eriu and Mictlan here...

Yeah, I'm fine with Eriu (or anything else). Eriu can do an extremely nasty early rush if somebody forges vine or beaten gold shields for them and some sort of brand (thus allowing them to skip construction research).

Okay.

Since everyone's counting on "someone else" to do the forging should one nation be switched to TC forge bitch duty?

Because, we don't have that many nations who can do vine shields and stuff.

Currently it would be either Mictlan downgrading the bless to some sane levels and utilizing that magic diversity, Eriu taking more of a support role, or... ...well, there went our nations with access to W and N magic. I can do Air, Earth and fire brands, but still the W/N is lacking.

Suggestions, please. What option I'm not taking into account?

i am fairly sure that mictlan is just gonna have to at some point pickup some const because I don't think anyone else has water? Eriu could forge vine shields and winged boots although mictlan could forge those plus frost brands and boots of quickness? and most importantly perhaps underwater breathing apartus? Ashdod might be the best bet for making dhammers due to the 15% discount but ashdod isn't that likely to pickup a brand forger anytime early. What exactly is mictlan going to be researching anyways? their best spell is going to be divine blessing?

Gah.

Marignon has research and if going Const/Conj paths for gold shields and fire brands, so that would help.

Still limited in N/W, but can't have it all.

Y'know, actually, I'll take MA T'ien Ch'i instead of MA Mictlan. MA Mictlan is a fine spearhead nation, but we already have Vanheim and Ashdod, both of whom are better in the same role.

Put me somewhere in the middle.

Dormant Deva, domstr 10, 3 Order, 2 Sloth, 1 Cold, 1 Growth, 3 Luck, 1 Magic.

MA T'ien Ch'i makes a great forge bitch - and you get a slew of bonus secret events (which depend on exactly those scales, FYI, except the Growth, which I have b/c about 45% of CM are old.)

Y'know, actually, I'll take MA T'ien Ch'i instead of MA Mictlan. MA Mictlan is a fine spearhead nation, but we already have Vanheim and Ashdod, both of whom are better in the same role.

Put me somewhere in the middle.

Dormant Deva, domstr 10, 3 Order, 2 Sloth, 1 Cold, 1 Growth, 3 Luck, 1 Magic.

MA T'ien Ch'i makes a great forge bitch - and you get a slew of bonus secret events (which depend on exactly those scales, FYI, except the Growth, which I have b/c about 45% of CM are old.)

Lol, Dr P apparently *really* wants TC. I'll focus on early thugs and B-line alteration, then cloud trapeze. As we're not funneling gold to Mictlan it may make sense send your spare change to Eriu - with a bit of extra funding I should be able to have 3 castles up around the end of year one with a dozen thugs ready to move. With just alteration and a bless those Sidhe lords are fine to take out light PD with no forged items, I can use the items as they come in to take out heavier stuff and once I get cloud trapeze I should be an unholy terror across the whole map. With my light research requirements I should also be able to do some early site searching to send W/N/A to TC.

Okay, good.

I'm going to try all I can to just rush over the nearest opponent, first by Vans, Skinshifters and Einheres, then when research permits with thugged out Vanjarls.

Given that we're going to be swarmed by team noob, I'd think getting up a second fort ASAP for all of us is important. Other than that, why not support Eriu. I'll cry for money the moment I need 80 skinshifters a turn to front lines, not before. ;p

So...

Ermor, Eriu, TC, Ashdod, Marignon, Vanheim? Should give TC nice place to lay low and research and spread the bow nations a bit too.

Don't all six of our nations need to be "spearheads" ? I mean with the current map layout there is no backline, there is no where to hide tein chi. Tein chi doesn't really have anything great it can be doing with it's troops or mages without perhaps vist researching something. If mictlan devotes all it's research to const all game it's still a force to be reckoned with? Tein-chi? not so much.... Although you are right tein chi is definitely a better forge bitch. I just don't see how we can defend tein chi?


I guess if they are in the middle maybe the other middle nation could attempt to totally surround tein chi's territory? I guess I'd nominate either eriu or ashdod to attempt to defend tein chi? other thoughts? Also if we take tein chi does that let the noobs take mictlan? a noob mictlan could be scary? Ashdod's ability to defend tein chi would directly depend on tein chi's ability to outfit ashdod which might make a good pair, but i'm probably what we should consider our least competent player.

namad wrote:but i'm probably what we should consider our least competent player.

I'm sure you will rise to the challenge.

We've still got Ermor, Vanheim, Ashdod and Eriu for fast-track expansion, and both Marignon and TC can do good campaigns against indies with archer-armies. So I wouldn't worry too much, and getting a forger for the team is probably more important than getting a strong starter.

After Ench4 and equipment both me and Baalz can walz in to anywhere in the map en force, so creating a protective zone shouldn't be undoable.

I don't think TC is really all that weak, with a sloth scale he's not going to be too aggressive, but he should be able to defend himself reasonably well with PD & composite archers/x-bows (Jotunheim, C'tis, Bandar, Pangea, Cealum, Arco-elephants) along with small amounts of imperial cavalry. The stuff that seems likely to be resistant to archery (Pythium, Abysia, Ulm, Arco-infantry, Agartha, Machaka) should be (prior to much research being done) essentially slogging around with heavy infantry comparable to what TC can field.

Eriu will be blitzing whoever is unfortunate enough to be right next to me, but in a relatively short time should be able to do something along the lines of: spend 3 turns building up then drop 9 thugs to raid the living be-jesus out of someone giving TC (or anybody) trouble. Just at a guess, I'm thinking Vanheim will have more troops whereas I'm gonna be going almost exclusively with cloud trapeze ready thugs.

ermor/vanheim are clearly the top/bottom nations.
I'd like it if ashdod could get a non-middle location because the middle locations have the least resources.
Amongst ashdod/eriu/marignon I think ashdod/eriu are the most mobile and capable of defending teinchi. This will greatly hamper teinchi's ability to use calvary however if teinchi isn't interested in calvary this will be okay.

So we can place eriu/teinchi in the middle and ashdod/marignon can be placed in 82/304?


Does this sound like reasonable logic? does this disrupt anyone's plans? then of course if this is logic we can all agree on we still have to choose which set gets the north and which the south

Baalz wrote:Just at a guess, I'm thinking Vanheim will have more troops whereas I'm gonna be going almost exclusively with cloud trapeze ready thugs.

Yeah well, to take out a nation fast some boots on the ground are needed. Just pure raiders can't breach walls. So I'm thinking of going with troops in the beginning. Going to bite me back should I end up against some archer-heavy nation and/or Miasma C'tis, but can't have it all.