...

[namad]

omg omg omg thank you!@!! i never woulda tested this!?!! why didn't someone say something sooner!!


astral bless does nothing at all for ashdod! 18mr +3mr bless =18mr!!!!





new proposed build: sphinx e9n6s3 dom9order3prod1heat3death2luck0magic1 could trade 1dom for 1scale
thoughts on this build? (it gets you straight up like +2 or +3dom over the druid which is probably worth it) even if the game is not over on turn 36 it will probably be nearly over

[TheDemon]

I'm thinking of this build for marignon:

Awake Great Enchantress

F1, A2, W2, E2, S4, D2, N4 (24 RP plus magic scales)
dom 5, order 3, heat 2, growth 1, misfortune 2, magic 1

Research targets are Thau 5, Enchant 5, Conj 3. I hope to get Thau 4 early but beyond that I'm going to play the priorities by ear. Con early is possible as Marignon has decent forging ability. Under this research plan its possible to have Angel thugs by turn 20 or so.

There's also the possibility of going to Enchant 6 and putting up Eternal Pyre. Can be done turn 13 or so. Input on this or the build in general?

I'll need shrouds forged to keep my best mages around. I'll also need some sort of Air Shield item, as does anyone who plans to use a rainbow for sitesearching. We did a real number on the noobs last game with seeking arrow and I expect them to return the favor.

[DrPraetor]

namad:

You could see this coming, but I'd trade a domstr for +1 luck. +1 luck and +3 order pretty well guarantees no major bad events, even with the death.

I really think all of us should take luck if we possibly can. The noobs can afford to take misfortune because it's okay if a third of them are crippled by bad events. We're outnumbered here and having even one of us get a big unrest event would be a major disaster for the whole team.

[DrPraetor]

TheDemon:

Why are you taking heat? Thematic purposes? Cold is better in year 1, when it really matters. It's not like we're fighting Niefelheim, and Ermor is on our side. Also, game is kinda short so I'm not 100% copacetic on the merits of taking growth. One or two rounds of disease are not that bad, even for Marignon.

Other than that only thing I'm afraid of is the Misfortune, but I see no way to get more points into the build. Are you sure the etherealness is worth the 9RP you lose over being a great sage, or the extra point from not being a crone?

same scales, a crone can be +1A +1E, or -1S and -1F and no misfortune.

same scales, a great sage can be -1 W, which is +8 next RP.

Of course, the great enchantress pees gems and certainly is a nice chassis, free etherealness is not to be sneezed at on a combat caster, but consider these.

[DrPraetor]

On my own build:
I don't think the Growth is worth it for MA T'ien Ch'i. I'm taking domstr 10 on my Deva instead.

By the by, on waking up she can have, with halfway decent luck on my alchemists:
Frost Brand
Fire Brand
Faithful
Shield of Gleaming Gold? Shield of Valour? Charcoal Shield?
Winged Shoes
Elemental Armour? Silver Hauberk?
Can someone make me a fear helmet?
Ring of Regeneration

I'll certainly need fire and nature gems from people, and I'm likely to need some earth also.

Dormant Deva, 4B, Domstr 10, 3 Order 2 Sloth 3 Luck 1 Magic

[TheDemon]

TheDemon:

Why are you taking heat? Thematic purposes? Cold is better in year 1, when it really matters. It's not like we're fighting Niefelheim, and Ermor is on our side. Also, game is kinda short so I'm not 100% copacetic on the merits of taking growth. One or two rounds of disease are not that bad, even for Marignon.

Other than that only thing I'm afraid of is the Misfortune, but I see no way to get more points into the build. Are you sure the etherealness is worth the 9RP you lose over being a great sage, or the extra point from not being a crone?

same scales, a crone can be +1A +1E, or -1S and -1F and no misfortune.

same scales, a great sage can be -1 W, which is +8 next RP.

Of course, the great enchantress pees gems and certainly is a nice chassis, free etherealness is not to be sneezed at on a combat caster, but consider these.

The gems was the main thing I wanted, for when I have to start summoning angels and forging shrouds. I picked heat because Phoenix Power gets rid of the severe heat encumberance penalty (confirmed with tests). Perhaps I should go to heat 3 in that case. I'll do some research timing tests with the sage build. The Crone is certainly something to consider, although if I took heat 3 and growth 0 I could get rid of misfortune anyway.

[atul]

I'll certainly need fire and nature gems from people, and I'm likely to need some earth also.

I hopefully should be finding earth and air sites a plenty, Marignon will have fire but on nature, you're on your own...

...there will be a lot of indy shamans in MA though, probably is worth it to put a first castle on such a province.

[DrPraetor]

Oh, TC has oodles of nature *mages*, but my capital makes no nature or fire gems.

So on turn 12 I'll need gems from people to finish outfitting my Deva. With both the fear helmet and the shield of gleaming gold, her fear+awe get high enough that even highly elite sacreds start to just bounce off.

[atul]

Just meant also other nations can't get (many) sites producing N gems without N mages to search for sites. Depending on how long this lasts recruiting indy shamen for site searching might pay off...

...or then I'm just channeling that site freq 75% game again...

[TheDemon]

The gems was the main thing I wanted, for when I have to start summoning angels and forging shrouds. I picked heat because Phoenix Power gets rid of the severe heat encumberance penalty (confirmed with tests). Perhaps I should go to heat 3 in that case. I'll do some research timing tests with the sage build. The Crone is certainly something to consider, although if I took heat 3 and growth 0 I could get rid of misfortune anyway.

I tested the following builds:
Great Sage F2 A2 W1 E2 S4 D2 N4 dom 5 order 3 heat 3 magic 1 (35 RP)
Great Enchantress F1 A2 W2 E2 S4 D2 N4 dom 5 order 3 heat 3 magic 1 (25 RP)
Crone A2 E2 S4 D2 N4 dom 5 order 3 heat 3 luck 2 magic 1 (17 RP) I could have also taken growth or taken heat down to 1.

After testing, the Great Sage gets Thau 5 / Ench 5 / Conj 3 barely one turn sooner than the Great Enchantress, which gets the same barely one turn sooner than the Crone. One or two turns difference in research speed can be relavent, but I think other factors might matter far more. The scales build Crone is certainly relavent. The way I see it I'm trading a pearl a turn, some sitesearching diversity, and ethereality for 2 scales (luck or less heat). I don't really see the point of a Great Sage.


I'll be searching Fire/Astral early and all my pretender paths throughout year 2, so I'll be able to supply you those types at those times. Eriu I think is our only capital nature income as far as I remember.

[DrPraetor]

This is my final build, which I have e-mailed in:
Dormant Daeva, Domstr 10, B4, Order 3, Sloth 2, Cold 1, Growth 1, Fortune 3, Magic 1.

Amusing note - the Daeva can use blood magic to benefit from pain transfer and rejuvenation with only 120 RP investment .

I always have Const 4 when she wakes up, even sending a few dudes off to site-search.

[namad]

okay this is what i am thinking now

sphinx e9n6s3 dom8order3prod0heat3death1luck1magic1

never use the 150gold 88resource sacreds only use the 125g 48resource kind... transition fairly quickly into usage of thugs instead... death doesn't hurt much in a short game

or

sphinx e9n6s3 dom9order3prod3heat3death2luck1drain2

non capital research suffers a lot, capital research suffers some, but ashdod doesn't need to do heavy forging because of tein chi? so? maybe that works out... ashdod really only needs alt7 for buffs and ench for domes and conj3 for earthpower... the game probably won't go long enough to be summoning unique summons?
this build allows for usage of the 150gold 88resource sacred and that extra dominion point costs 1scale but if the plan is to recruit these awesome troops all game 1more per turn will be useful... however i think the first build might be better because the super awesome troops are mostly for the early game and after the early game it becomes about researching invulernability and phx pyre and domes ? eh?

anyone have an opinion either way? (i'm taking a page out of drp's book or was it thedemon? with the whole ORDER/luck/death is good for short game position)

[TheDemon]

Order/Luck is DrP's book and I think Death is mine. I think you should go with the magic 1 build. With easy research, you could say magic scales have double the effect on research speed they do in the normal game. If we're all able to throw around some magic and you're able to put up domes at some point in the first year and a half, that would help us greatly. The noobs are going to exploit your cap dependancy, its dangerous to rely on that and put yourself farther from domes at the same time.

[namad]

it's a shame ashdod has to rely on the astral dome and can't put up nature nor air nor ice

[lingchih]

Are we done? Just waiting on the Noobs, I think.

[atul]

Yeah just waiting for them, I believe.

Oh, and for the record, took out the misfortune and braved cold-3 instead. I hope it doesn't bite me later on.

In other words, final build:
Dormant Father of Winters, A3W9E4, domstr 9, Order 3 Sloth 2 Cold 3 Death 2 Luck 0 Magic 1.

And namad, astral domes are cool. I'd like to have those too.

[TheDemon]

Great Enchantress F1 A2 W2 E2 S4 D2 N4 dom 5 order 3 sloth 2 heat 1 magic 1 (25 RP)

For the record, I went with this build. My starting position has an absolutely insane ammount of resources and is gold-lite, so I took some sloth and less heat to even that up a bit.

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